Obviously, all four views have some strengths and some weaknesses. It seems to me that it is simply a matter of deciding which view has the fewest weaknesses and the most strengths. For me, the Reformed view is the clear winner, but with Memorialism in a close second. Let me elaborate.
The Reformed critiques of the Roman Catholic and Lutheran views are, I believe, devastating. To confer a divine attribute to Christ’s human nature is nothing less than a violation of the Chalcedonian Creed, which affirms that Christ’s two natures are neither confused nor mixed. Likewise, the finite cannot contain the infinite, which rules out any doctrine of the Eucharist that would seek to contain Christ within the elements. David P. Scaer’s response to this argument was twofold: First, he argued that we cannot let a philosophical axiom be a basis of doctrine. This is a weak argument, however, since I’m sure Scaer would agree that we can and should (and indeed must!) allow the basic laws of logic to be a basis for doctrine. Second, he argued that without the power to contain itself in the finite, the infinite would not truly be infinite. But this sounds like the sort of argument that says “if God were truly omnipotent He could do anything, including make a contradiction true.” But this, of course, is to misconstrue the meaning of omnipotence. Likewise Scaer seems to have the wrong idea about infinitude.
Moreover, Russell D. Moore’s argument that the misunderstanding of Christ’s metaphorical teachings about Himself is a recurring theme in John’s gospel (an argument that can easily be appropriated by the Reformed view) deals a similar deathblow to Catholicism and Lutheranism by removing the force of the most explicit passage of Scripture in their favor (John 6).
But what of the Memorialist view? There is strength in their connection of the Lord’s Supper to Passover, which was by no means a meal that conferred special grace or contained the Spirit of God. And if we are to support Memorialist arguments regarding the metaphorical nature of Christ’s body and blood, why not go all the way and admit that the elements are merely signs that point metaphorically to those realities?
I believe there is one primary reason to affirm the Reformed view rather than the Memorialist view (I think there are others, but they would take us too far into other areas of theology), and it is found in 1 Corinthians chapter 10, verse 16. In this verse, Paul is clear that when we eat of the bread and drink of the cup we are actually participating with Christ’s body and blood in a special way that is different from the “regular” participation with Christ that the church in general enjoys. At this point, Russell D. Moore reminds us that Paul contrasts this with food offered to idols, which he says makes a person a participant with demons. Does this imply that eating food offered to idols allows a person to spiritually commune with the “real presence” of a demon? Of course not. But here I think Moore simply makes the mistake of directly equivocating what the Lord’s Supper means and what food sacrificed to demons means. What is significant in this passage is not that there is a direct and perfect correlation between the two, but rather that Paul is affirming that there is something real and supernatural at work behind the worship of idols. To be sure, the statues themselves are lifeless creations of man and the “gods” they represent do not exist, but behind them is the real, supernatural work of Satan and his demons. That is the only point Paul is trying to make here. The correlation to the Lord’s Supper, then, is in the fact that, likewise, there is something very real and very supernatural going on behind the partaking of the Lord’s Supper. This strongly suggests something more than mere symbolism.
For these reasons, then, I believe the Reformed view to be the superior understanding of the doctrine of Holy Communion, while at the same time acknowledging that such a profound mystery will never fully be grasped by the human mind, at least not this side of Paradise.
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Comments
Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
by
Derek
on Sun 27 Apr 2008 11:03 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link
Likewise, the finite cannot contain the infinite, which rules out...
...the Incarnation. Re: Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
Derek,
That's a very good point. I thought about that myself, but since neither the Catholic nor the Lutheran theologians arguing against the Reformed position mentioned that obvious conclusion of Calvin's argument, I think there is something different in play here. From what I've read, I believe that Calvin was responding to the notion that the divine nature of Christ could be fully contained within the elements, not merely the human nature. If all we were talking about was the human nature, then we would simply be dealing with the finite containing the finite, which is no problem. But the problem comes when we try to say that the divine nature is also fully present, not just WITH the elements, but somehow WITHIN them. This is what the axiom rules out. This explains why Calvin sounds so close to Luther at times, arguing that we do indeed receive the real flesh and blood of Christ in Communion, and yet why he refused to actually say that Christ was contained within the elements themselves. Re: Re: Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
Oops! A very important point that I forgot to address...
In regards to the incarnation, we would not say that Christ's infinite divinity was actually contained WITHIN his human body. As the creeds and councils rightly affirm, Christ's two natures were inseparably joined together. But that hardly means that his divine nature was contained within his human nature. How could that be, since the divine nature is shared between the three persons of the Trinity? Are the Father and the Holy Spirit also contained with the human body of Christ? Of course not. But this is the kind of problem that Catholic and Lutheran doctrines of the Eucharist run into. In short, then, Calvin's acceptance of this axiom would NOT rule out the incarnation. Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
by
Derek
on Mon 28 Apr 2008 11:17 AM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link
David, these arguments prove far too much. Actually, they represent a near perfect recapitulation of Nestorius' arguments against the theotokos. It doesn't work to claim the mantle of Chalcedon while simultaneously affirming the opinions of its heretics. The Church has always confessed, with Paul, that "in [Christ], the fullness of deity dwells bodily." Not partially, but wholly and personally.
But even granting your Christological premises, doesn't your argument only nullify a Eucharistic doctrine that believes Christ is present according to his divine nature ONLY in the bread and wine, and nowhere else? But neither Catholics nor Lutherans argue that. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Re: Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
Derek,
I've heard that Lutheran and Reformed Christians both engage in accusing each other of aligning with ancient heresy. Lutherans accuse the Reformed of being Nestorian, while the Reformed accuse Lutherans of being Monophysite. But I'm curious, what specifically have I said that supports Nestorianism? As far as I can tell, I have not argued for a separation of Christ's two natures, nor have I argued that the man Jesus Christ cannot rightly be called God (which was Nestorius's problem with the theotokos). Perhaps you were referring to something else? I'm also interested to hear your response to my question regarding the other two persons of the Trinity. Would you say that God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are both fully present in the man Jesus Christ? Since all three persons share the single divine nature, this seems to be the logical conclusion of your position. If, however, we understand that Jesus Christ is fully God (as Paul declares) in the sense that He is the second person of the Trinity, in flesh, and that his divine nature is truly and inseparably united to the human nature, while still affirming that the divine nature remains infinite and is distinct from Christ's human nature in the same sense that the person of the Son is distinct from the persons of the Father and Holy Spirit, then it seems to me that we are left with a perfectly non-heretical, orthodox understanding of both the Incarnation and the Trinity, while still maintaining the objections I have raised against Lutheran and Roman Catholic doctrines of the Eucharist (wow...talk about a run-on sentence!). Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
by
Derek
on Tue 29 Apr 2008 10:47 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link
"In regards to the incarnation, we would not say that Christ's infinite divinity was actually contained WITHIN his human body."
There's a reason Jesus refers to his own body as the true temple of God in John 2. There is, in the person of Jesus Christ, an indwelling of the divine nature within His assumed humanity (apologies for the bold, but I've been accused before of being overly subtle). If we can't agree on that, we lose any possible starting point for discussion of the Lord's Supper. To speak of his divine and human nature being "inseparably united" in a way where the whole fullness of deity is not peculiarly located within the human body of Christ flatly contradicts not only Col 2:9 (perhaps our clearest description of the hypostatic union), but the whole of church history. Read Cyril's epistles to Nestorius if you don't believe me. But let me try to swing this around again to the Lord's Supper (the topic you actually posted on!). Your point about the Father and Holy Spirit being contained within the man Jesus Christ, even it were the "logical conclusion" of my position, does nothing to advance your case against Roman Catholic or Lutheran views of the Supper. Here's my recap: The initial disagreement was about whether finitum non capax infinitum destroys a real identification of the bread with the body and wine with the blood. I contended the argument does nothing to the Eucharist that it doesn't also do to the Incarnation. You disagreed, noting that the divine nature exists outside the person of Christ, as it is shared by the two other persons of the Trinity. Fair enough. But as I noted before when I first tried to respond to this point, neither Catholics nor Lutherans say that Christ's divine nature is contained within the bread and wine in such a way that it is located nowhere else. Christ's divinity (and humanity, but that's not the point you're arguing) is present within the elements in a special, peculiar way--just like his divinity is present in a special, peculiar way within his humanity. The second person of the Trinity dwells in the hearts of all the saints, yes, but in a much different way than he dwells in the human nature of Christ. Likewise, the divine Logos fills all things, but he fills the bread and wine in a very particular way. So "the finite cannot contain the infinite" may not apply in either case, but it certainly applies the same way in both. And just so there's no confusion, I don't think you're a heretic. Re: Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
I think I understand the point you were trying to make now. But I'm still confused on a few points. To clarify: Do you agree with the axiom, but not with its application to the Lord's Supper? Or do you reject the axiom itself?
Re: Re: Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
by
Derek
on Wed 30 Apr 2008 09:10 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link
I suppose it depends on what you think it means. If you ratchet this principle down so tightly that even the Incarnation is excluded, well then I think we'd both agree it's false. If you're lax enough in its application so as to allow the Incarnation, well then I would have no trouble affirming such a limp-wristed axiom, since it could mount no respectable argument against a Catholic/Lutheran understanding of the Supper.
I'm sympathetic, by the way, to Scaer's point about theology-by-axiom. Perhaps at some point we can get around to discussing the relevant Scripture passages. Thus far, we've had no exegetical arguments offered for either side, unless you include your brief (constraints of the paper, I know) reference to Moore's argument against John 6. But certainly the very words of institution are relevant here, yes? Re: Re: Re: Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
Ok. I actually agree withe the second, weaker version of the axiom as well.
I think what happened was that I misapplied the axiom to the debate. It isn't meant to be a direct argument against Lutheran/Catholic views of the Supper (because, as you rightly pointed out, in order for it to do that it would also have to be an argument against the incarnation). It is actually meant as a defense on behalf of the Reformed view against the charge that the Reformed view is Nestorian. So, because Calvin's doctrine denied the ubiquity of Christ's human nature, and has the divine nature present in the Supper without the human nature, some of Calvin's Lutheran interlocutors accused him of dividing the natures, and thus being Nestorian. To defend against this, Calvin employed this axiom. Even though deity dwells fully within the man Jesus, the infinite remains infinite, and thus "spills over" outside of his human body. But the natures remain united. In this way, it is possible to have the divine nature present during Communion, but not the human nature, without a division between them. And of course, because of the mystical union of the human and divine natures, when we partake of the divine nature, we also mystically partake of the human nature. Yes, I do believe that the words of institution are important here, but the image of Luther debating the other Reformers and slamming his fist on the table and repeatedly shouting "This is my body" immediately comes to mind. It has always seemed to me that that is about all Lutherans and Catholics can do, is insist without much supporting argument that we ought to take the words literally (as where the non-literal view can offer arguments such as Moore's). If you have some arguments for why we ought to take the words of institution literally, I'd be happy to think about them. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
Hi David and Derek,
I just wanted to say I've found your exchange both gracious and helpful. Thanks for that! Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
by
Derek
on Sat 03 May 2008 06:07 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link
Sure, Luther's table-chalking at Marburg might seem a bit grandiose to our postmodern sensibilities, but I'm sure those in attendance probably considered it quite charming.
At any rate, if it seems like the Lutheran position advances no arguments for a literal reading of the words of institution (have you read any Chemnitz, by the way?--not a challenge; just curious), it's likely because, as a rule, defending the literal meaning of an utterance doesn't lend itself well to argumentation. We generally accept the plain sense of any passage of Scripture unless the text gives us some reason to believe otherwise. So in a very real sense, a literal reading is the "default position." All I can do by way of argument, then, is wait for someone to challenge that reading, at which I point I can offer a counterargument. Now Moore has apparently lodged such an argument, but (and of course I'm responding only to your brief summary) I don't find it particularly persuasive. Nobody questions whether Jesus used figures of speech. He did. At question is whether Jesus was speaking figuratively in his institution of the Supper. Moore can keep multiplying examples of metaphor in other, unrelated issues, and it won't prove his conclusion any more than it would prove mine if I cited thirty instances of Christ speaking literally in John's gospel. He would need to provide instead some textual reason why Jesus' words couldn't mean what they actually say. Of course, looking back now at your initial post, I'm noting that Moore's argument means only to address John 6, and not the words of institution themselves. If that's the case, his argument holds up a little better--at least as it concerns John 6. I agree with Scaer that this passage does, at least, allude to the Lord's Supper (much like John 3 does to Baptism), even if it doesn't provide a dogmatic definition, as such. The issue of the Sacraments in John's gospel requires a bit more nuanced discussion than would probably work here, but suffice it to say that, despite the absence of any explicit institution narratives of Baptism or the Lord's Supper, John's language is intensely sacramental throughout. But I think for this type of discussion, we should limit ourselves to the synoptic accounts and I Corinthians 10 and 11. By the way, let me quickly echo Aaron's sentiments below. You're a magnanimous sparring partner, David. Such a change of pace from Roger... Re: Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
I'm still a little uncertain about the relationship between John 6 and the Supper. On the one hand, I have heard many a Protestant theologian argue that it doesn't really make sense to connect the two, since Jesus had not yet instituted the Supper in John 6 and no one (Apostles included) would have understood the allusion. They are also quick to point out that John is the only gospel not to include the institution of the Supper. But of course, neither of these things has any bearing on whether or not John meant this passage to explicitly allude to the Supper. And given the obvious correlation of eating the body and drinking the blood, I'm inclined to think that John 6 is very much intended as an allusion to Communion.
The upshot, though, is that if John 6 is meant to directly correlate to the Supper (and perhaps is even a replacement of the words of institution in the synoptics), then Moore's argument, if it's valid, holds sway over the words of institution as well. My only point regarding Luther's penchant for the dramatic was that, typically, there is at least some small articulatable reason, usually internal to the text, that gives us cause to go one way or the other. So, there ought to clues or markers of some sort that cause us to think that Christ must be speaking literally. Or, negatively, there ought to be solid reasons for thinking that Christ is not speaking metaphorically. So, I suppose I'm asking for two things: One is a positive case for the literal interpretation. I know you've already mentioned that the literal interpretation tends to be something that you don't really have a positive case for, but I don't think that will work here. A metaphorical meaning actually seems to be a more likely default position to me, if only because, as so many Memorialists have pointed out, Jesus was sitting right there in front of them when He told them that the bread was His body. Are we meant to think they understood this to mean that the bread somehow became a literal extension of his (not yet glorified!) body? This just seems unlikely. It seems to me that the supposed literal interpretation is the one that needs to be argued for. Or, if you prefer, the second thing I'm asking for is a response to Moore. Like I said, if his argument is a good one, AND we take John 6 to be a foundational eucharistic passage, then even the synoptics' words of institution are in trouble. Re: Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
by
Derek
on Wed 07 May 2008 08:17 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link
The "Reply" link was missing from the bottom of your last post, David, so my comment ended up down at the bottom. Sorry!
Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
Thanks for posting this guide. I found it helpful, especially because of how clear and straightforward your summaries and critiques are. I happen to land somewhere around the Memorialist or Reformed view depending on the day of the week you catch me.
Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
by
Derek
on Mon 28 Apr 2008 11:29 AM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link
Indeed, thank you for posting this. Most Evangelicals, I think, miss the Christological import of this doctrine, and so relegate it to some secondary or tertiary level.
All theology is Christology--some issues just more obviously than others. Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
by
Derek
on Wed 07 May 2008 08:15 PM PDT | Profile | Permanent Link
Moore identifies, I think, a very real pattern in John's gospel (chapter six included) of Christ being misunderstood by his hearers. This much is uncontroversial. At issue, of course, is the nature of these misunderstandings--specifically, 1. How is Christ's teaching understood by those in attendance? and 2. What did Christ really mean?
To distill these two questions down, as Moore does, into a literal/metaphorical dichotomy is a bit of an oversimplification. Take, for example, John 2. When Christ says, "Destroy this temple...", is he being literal? Think before you answer. The misunderstanding here ("It has taken forty-six years to build this temple...") is not simply a matter of Christ speaking figuratively and being understood literally; it's a matter of his audience not apprehending Christ's body as the true temple of God. The Shekhinah now resides in the person of Jesus Christ, not in "a house made by human hands". So our Lord is being quite literal here, albeit in a way not immediately obvious to his listeners. His statement possesses a sort of... "meta-literality" (if I may), where a higher (not metaphorical) truth is expressed, though is obscured for those whose minds are not "set on things above." It's important that we agree on this. Jesus is not, in John 2, saying (as Moore's argument would lead us by analogy to believe), "My body is like this temple." He's saying, "My body is the temple." The same pattern is evidenced in Moore's other examples, though I'll spare you a prolonged explanation. You obviously get the pattern. So what about John 6, then? Same deal. The Capernaites clearly misunderstand Jesus' words as referring to a crass, carnal, cannibalistic tearing of the flesh from his body. Their misunderstanding has been enshrined throughout Christian history, as a "Capernaitic eating" is decried in countless writings--patristic texts, Protestant confessions, you name it--as a gross butchering (no pun intended) of Jesus' teaching. Justin Martyr defended the church of the second century from precisely this accusation not by affirming, with Moore, that the eating is symbolic, but rather, of a different kind--a sacramental eating. Having said all that, I really don't think that John 6 is genial to the type of discussion we're having. While I do think this chapter clearly alludes to the Lord's Supper, it's hardly a restatement of the words of institution. In fact, I think John, with his different theological emphasis, presupposes the Synoptic accounts. It would be interesting to see a separate post on the sacraments in John's gospel, but they don't really bring much to bear here, seeing as they establish no Lutheran Eucharistic dogma. Towards your other point about arguing positively for a literal interpretation, I think you've misunderstood me. I only meant to describe an uncontroversial principle of basic hermeneutics, that one always begins with the "plain sense" of the words before exploring other options. There are certainly good reasons to stray from the natural reading of something (e.g., the speaker is employing a known idiom), but you don't start there. You actually demonstrated that point nicely by giving me an argument ("Are we meant to think they understood this to mean that the bread somehow became a literal extension of his (not yet glorified!) body?") for why the plain meaning cannot be admitted. And while this sort of objection would (and should!) carry the day in any hermeneutical context not involving the omnipotent creator of heaven and earth, I'm not sure it works very well here. It amounts to a sort of "argument from incredulity" which, if admitted, seems like it would likewise discredit a great number of other core Christian doctrines. The perceptions of those listening (as Moore has demonstrated) are mostly useless in trying to understand what Jesus actually meant. But I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. I won't know until I actually hit the POST button, but I feel like I've typed way too much. I'm not trying to monopolize the discussion here, and I promise to pare down future comments. Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
David and Derek
I very much appreciate your dialogue and while I may not be able to enter into some of the arguments that you present, I would like to offer my take. The primary sense of scripture has to be the literal. The verb that Jesus uses in John 6 changes during the bread of life discourse. When he first says that one must "eat my flesh" he uses the verb phago which could be interpreted as a symbolic eating. However, as the followers begin to question him, Christ becomes more emphatic opting to use the verb trogo which very literally means "to gnaw" or "crunch." So it is clear from the text that Jesus meant that there was to be a literal eating. Not a cannibalistic eating, but a sacramental eating as Derek noted. Another reason that the metaphorical interpretation won't work is due to the fact that in Jesus' day to symbolically "eat the flesh" of someone was to disgrace them. There was no way that Jesus was saying to his followers that you must disgrace me in order to have life within you. In order to add further clarity we should look at the words of Jesus in the context of Jewish restoration eschatology. Deut 18:15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren - him you shall heed Deut 34:10 And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face... The Jews were awaiting the return of the northern tribes from exile. And who better to lead them in this new exodus but a new Moses? Jesus is the new Moses. The Jews also knew that there couldn't be a new exodus (cf. Luke 9:31) without a new Passover. Just as the lamb of the passover meal had to be consumed, so the lamb of the new passover must be consumed. Paul refers to Jesus as our paschal lamb (cf. 1 Cor 5:7). The connection between John 6 and the Supper is quite clear if kept in the context of the passover (cf. John 6:4). If you look closely at the Last Supper, you will see that the passover isn't completed in the upper room. The passover meal consisted of four cups of wine and only three are consumed in the synoptic accounts. Jesus then prays in the Garden of Gethsemene and asks for the "cup" to pass from him. The cup was the final cup of the passover that Jesus takes just before declaring "it is finished." This climax of this passover is the very crucifixion where he was both priest and victim. The Last Supper and the Crucifixion is one sacrifice continuously offered in the heavenly liturgy. We get a chance to partake of the heavenly liturgy when we come to the Lord's Supper. Notice in Rev. 5 when John sees the Lion of Judah, the conquerer in Heaven that he sees a "Lamb standing as though slain." The presence of Christ in the Eucharist is further evidenced in the account of the disciples on the road to Emmaus. Keep in mind that when Jesus multiplied the loaves and fish he "took, blessed, broke and gave", when he instituded the Eucharist at the last supper he "took, blessed, broke and gave." Now when he meets the disciples on their way to Emmaus he "went in the stay with them." (Luke 24:29) He then "takes" the bread, "blesses" it, "breaks" it and "gives" it to them. Their eyes are then opened to see him and he vanishes from their sight. Is it a coincidence that he goes in to stay with them and them vanishes when they recognize him in the breaking of the bread? Of course not. He is with them and he is with us always in the breaking of the bread. The church fathers attested to this as well. Here are a couple of quotes: "I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible" (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]). "We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]). God Bless. Re: Re: This Is My Body - Part Three
By the way, the quotes above should be attributed to St. Ignatius and St. Justin Martyr. Sorry for leaving that out.
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